Author Topic: how to: a simple scuff and paint, closed door respray  (Read 7261 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline kremscalibra

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Calibra Rookie
  • Posts: 63
  • Respect 0
  • Gender: Male
    • Cally 16v Redtop
how to: a simple scuff and paint, closed door respray
« on: November 08, 2015, 12:14:20 PM »
hi guys, im respraying my calibra and have some pics in my build thread, but thought i would share a more detailed thread of how i will be doing it, im not a tradie, just self taught and love it, altho it kills my back, i have bad back problems,
i leanr more and more in each car i paint, and get better and better, have mainly learnt by asking questions, reading books, watching youtube and basically getting my hands dirty
this thread will cover basic prep work, filler use, sanding blocks and blocking procedures, mixing paint, gun setup, painting, removing dust and runs from your paint, and maybe a few other things along the way
pls remember, this is how i do things, they may not be the correst way, but i havent had any problems to date, and am learning as i do things, so pls, if you have any tips of your own from your own experience, pls share
here goes.
1st up, wash your car till its clean as a whistle, i wash it 2-3 times, it costs very little to be clean, yet if you try to paint over dirt and crap, it becomes expensive, dont think that you can sand a panel clean, all your doing is sanding crap into the paint, and it will bite you hard when your paint reacts to it!!
im using a base coat, clear coat system, wanda is the brand of color/clear, colorthane is the primer i will be using, its all 2pak, user friendly and gives great finish off the gun, always use a respirator when painting, and a mask when sanding, this stuff is not very good for your health!!
i pulled the front bumper off the car, i will pant the car 1st, then the bumpers and mirrors.
i then clean the whole car twice with prepsol (wax and grease remover), never letting it dry on the panel, i have a sprayer, spray it on a small section, let it sit for a few seconds and then wipe if dry with a clean cloth, if you let it dry on the panel, it leaves a film and all the crap its supposed to clean off is still there and will not be buddies with your paint!!
i am using my orbi sander hooked upto my elcheapo shop vac, its a very simpe and crude dustless sanding system but works well, i also use an interface pad between the sander and paper, it conforms to the shape of the panel and wont affect the panel shape while sanding, altho try staying off the body lines and edges with coarser grit paper.
interface pad

my dustless sanding setup

1st up, i started with the bonnet, remove the squirters and i started with p180, lined up the holes on the paper with holes in the sander so the vac can do its job, the 180 will quickly remove the orange peel from the paint and wont take long to get the panel done, i think it took around 3mins to do the bonnet, you could just use p320 for the initial sand, but having paint too thick on a panel isnt real good, si the 180 will take a little bit more off, if i se any stone chips i try to take them back to the primer and feather them surrounding paint so that its a smooth transition to where the chip used to be, i used 1 x p180 disc for the bonnet
if you dont have access to an orbi sander, then a sanding block and some 180 and elbow grease, sand a section at a time around 40cm x 40cm, in a x pattern diagonal across the panel, go 1 direction and the back in the opposite direction, use a old vacume with a brush attachment to suck up the dust, pls dont blow it around your shed, it will be harder to clean up later when your about to paint!! just sand till the panel is smooth and peel is gone, DONT push hard on the panel, just let the sand paper do its job, pushing hard will only make deep scratches in the paint
i then clean off the panel, my vac dont remove all the dust so i just spray some prepsol on and dry if off wit a clean cloth
then take some powdered guide coat, rub it into the paint, change to p240 and then sand till the p180 scratches are all gone, you will see the guide coat in the p180 sanding marks, you need to get all these out, repeat with p320, i used 2xp320 discs on the bonnet, the finer the grit, the faster it wears out,
the bonnet sanded, this took around 15 mins all up, by hand it would take me around 90mins

here is a dent that was on the bonnet, the clear was peeling off and was basically a little mess, i waited till after i finished the panel with p320 and then took the interface pad off and put some p120 on, i then started in the centre of the dent, it wasnt very deep, maybe 2mm deep so the paint came out easy with the orbi tilted up just a little, then holding the sander flat over the dent i feathered out the surrounding paint so there is a smooth transition between the layers, i like to do this last as its easier to do the initial feathering out with a coarser paper, and also the filler will stick better the the coarser paper, i will use filler (bog, bondo or watever its called in your country) and spread it out to where the red paint starts, block it out with some p120 and a sanding block till its smooth, then clean it off, dry guide coat and remover all the p120 scratches with p180, run your hand over the repair to feel if its smooth or not, if its not, apply some more filler but make sure you go a little further past the last lot of filler you applied,  then back to the orbi with the interface pad, guide coat where you block sanded and then p240 with the orbi till the p180 marks are all gone, feel if its smooth, if it is then this repair is ready for pirmer, i will only be preimering any repairs or rub thrus to metal,
again, if you dont have a orbi, just use the same process as above, but with a block, making sure you stop every few mins to remove the dust from the panel and the paper,
i like to mask up trims and adjacent panels so i dont sand onto them, all the edges where the orbie wont get to, i will sand with a block and 320 dry paper
here is a front guard and door, it has been sanded with p180, cleaned off and dry guide coat applied, then started the 2nd pass with p240 as you can see

well that will do for now, the next lot will cover a little on different sanding blocks, blocking procedure, filler use, filling some small holes and searching for small dents
krem

Offline Davey A

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Calibra Rookie
  • Posts: 453
  • Respect 2
  • Gender: Male
    • Cally 16v Ecotec
Re: how to: a simple scuff and paint, closed door respray
« Reply #1 on: November 08, 2015, 20:40:35 PM »
Hello there,

I'm really interested in this. I have a lot of "bits" that need tarting up paintwork-wise.

I'm watching with interest.
I'm pleased I fitted a telly in my Calibra. It gives me something to watch when I'm waiting for the RAC.

Offline kremscalibra

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Calibra Rookie
  • Posts: 63
  • Respect 0
  • Gender: Male
    • Cally 16v Redtop
Re: how to: a simple scuff and paint, closed door respray
« Reply #2 on: November 09, 2015, 11:44:43 AM »
no worries, i hope it can help,
didnt get much done today and prob wont for resrt of week as i had a new client call for some renovations to start on wed, but gotta pay the bills i spose!!
anyways, just a bit on sanding blocks and blocking procedures
here are a few of my sanding blocks that ive collected over the past few yrs, all up its cost me around $120, which might sound alot and look like i have a few of the same, but when your doing a bare metal resto, it pays to have heaps of blocks, as you need to swap and change your grit quite often, and on most of my blocks i use some double sided tape tape to fix the paper to the block, when you take the paper off it tends to rip, so i only change the paper when its no good. you could buy a durablock kit for around $70, but you prob wont use most of them,
the orange blocks mainly started out as long 1s like the longest 1 pictured and i cut them down to a size i needed at the time, its far cheaper that way, same as the smaller narrow blocks, cut them to wat you need and even put a raduis on them if needed like in 1 of the pics,
balsa wood is a really cheap way of getting some blocks, you buy it in a length of around 600mm, comes in different shapes and you can easily shape it to wat you need, the triangle block is ideal for the bodyline where i removed the side mouldings
i also have a smaller triangle block i use for sanding dirt, dust and small runs out of my paint after i have painted, works a treat
here are some pics






which block to use?
if your just blocking paint ready for primer or to paint, i like a smallish firm block, i like to cut my paper into 1/4's and then thats the sized block i would use, like the blue block on the bottom left of the pic or the balsa wood block like in the centre or if my fingers are sore and i dont wanna hold the paper, i would use one of the orange blocks the same size as the blue 1 and stick the paper on, a smaller block will allow more control of the sanding area, and the sanding pattern
if i was sanding filler on a small dent, then a block around the same size as the area you have applied filler on, if it was a large area or even a whole panel (yes its quite often in restorations) i would use one of the longer blocks, the real long block i havent used as yet because i dont buy my paper in rolls, the next size down on the block is the same length of the paper i use

how to block
always block in a criss cross pattern, this will help to avoid sanding on the exact same spot a few times and making grooves in the panel, if you look at your door, your block lenght will run the length of the door and you would sand at a 45 deg angle down the door, always holding the block parallell with the length of the door, never push too hard, just enough pressure to hold the paper and block to the panel, go the length of the door or if doing a repair you need to start half a block lenght around the repair and go over the repair and past it around half a block length, go a full pass in 1 direction at the 45 deg angle, then go the opposite 45 deg angle back of the panel / repair, just keep repeating till the panel / repair is smooth

which sand paper to use.
i like to always use dry paper for all my prep work, i only use wet paper for my final rub before paint, or if i have used a machine for my final rub, i would use wet on all the areas the machine cant get to and on the body lines
for a paint removal to bare metal, i use p36 on my orbital sander to take it down to the primer, but stay off the edges, it will burn thru in no time, can event cut thru the metal, then change it upto p80 till your nearly thru to the metal, then p120 till the metal is exposed,
i like to then rip over the metal with p180 and then p240 to get the panel ready for primer, p240 is the bare minimum for primer to avoid the sanding marks showing thru
prep for filler, i like to use p80 in the actual dent and around it a little, and then p120 in the surrounding area to give the filler something to grip to and help it feather out around the repair area.
blocking filler, i like to shape the filler with p80 on a block till its smooth and lightly feathered around the edges of the repair, then p120 on a block and then p180 wiith a block, finishing off with p240 either by block or machine if possible ready for primer
blocking primer,
i like to put on 3 coats of primer, then a spray guide coat, when its cured, i start to block the repair or panel with p240 to take the orange peel off the primer and make it smooth, the a dry guide coat and block with p320, then another guide coat and final sand with 600 wet for solid colors or 800 wet for clear over base colors, if machine sanding i would just block it with p240, then machine with p320, guide coat and then p500 for soilid colors and p600 for clear over base.

always use guide coat so you can see wat your doing, its hard to explain why till youve used it, dont use it on filler until after you have blocked with p120, and its only to see if you have removed the sand scratches from the previous paper

wet paper and dry paper are different, wet paper grades are usually a little finer than wet paper, for example p600 dry is nearly the same as p800 wet,
when wet sanding, use a spray bottle, and also a clean bucket with water and car wash like your about to wash your car, the soap will help clean the paint as you sand and also help make the paper last a little longer by stopping it from clogging up, i like to presoak my paper for about 5 mins before i use it, it softens the paper and makes it easier to use, it folds arounf the block a little easier too.
the spray bottle is used to keep the area wet and flush off the paint as you sand, spray the panel and the face of the paper too, put some car wash in the bottle
i like to use real small blocks for wet sanding, like the small narrow 1s in the pic, it really helps to control wat your doing, again, dont push hard and change to a new piece of paper when it starts getting slow at taking off material, for a calibra bonnet and wet sanding primer with p800 (after it has been preblocked with p320_ i would use 1 whole sheet of paper, maybe a sheet and a half!!
thats about all i can think of for now, sorry if this is all jumbled, my organisation skills are pretty poor, lol, and im pretty dumb at writing stuff, and explaining stuff, but am doin my best, im just lucky im good with my hands and have a good eye for detail or id be stuffed!!
krem


 

Offline CalibraNath

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Calibra Rookie
  • Posts: 300
  • Respect 0
  • Gender: Male
    • Cally 16v Ecotec
Re: how to: a simple scuff and paint, closed door respray
« Reply #3 on: November 09, 2015, 15:19:19 PM »
Thanks for sharing this thread. My car has nicks & scratches & has some rust issues where paint got lifted off at the front bottom corners of the doors.

Offline kremscalibra

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Calibra Rookie
  • Posts: 63
  • Respect 0
  • Gender: Male
    • Cally 16v Redtop
Re: how to: a simple scuff and paint, closed door respray
« Reply #4 on: November 11, 2015, 10:17:11 AM »
nicks and scratches are pretty easy, for a quick fix, you can get some paint colormatched (acrylic works best like this, and clean the area pretty good with car wash, then prepsol as described above, get a grey scotch bright and very lighty scuff up the scratch so the paint will stick, clean again with prepsol, then get some maksking tape and fold it so there is a pointy end, dip this end in the paint and use it like a brush to fill the scratch, give it a couple coats till the paint is a little proud of the rest of the panel, let it cure for a few days and then with a small sanding block, simply sand it down level with some 1500 wet, then blend it in with some 2000 wet and buff it up, it should come up pretty good.
if you plan on repainting the panel, then feather out the crappy bits wit some p180, then some p240 and its ready for primer, but sand the rest of the panel with some p320 before you primer, i would give it 3 coats of 2k or 5 coats of 1k, that way the primer will stick to the surrounding area, you wont need to prime the whole panel, just the area where the scratch was and where you sanded with p240, let primer cure, guide coat it and block the primer area back with some p240 will the orange peel is gone and the primer is feathered off and smooth where it meets the paint, guide coat again and block with p320, the guide coat the whole panel and finish sand with p600 wet for solid color or 800 wet for base coat / clear coat paints
for some really good youtube clips, pls check out the gunman, he is awesome, explains really good
krem

Offline kremscalibra

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Calibra Rookie
  • Posts: 63
  • Respect 0
  • Gender: Male
    • Cally 16v Redtop
Re: how to: a simple scuff and paint, closed door respray
« Reply #5 on: November 16, 2015, 12:19:46 PM »
ok, a few more bits and pieces, 1stly masking, im hopeless at it, but there are a few things that can make it easy, for your door jams, inside gaps and stuff, there is a foam "soft edge" that fills the gap, it also stops getting a hard edge along it when you paint, i didnt get much pics of masking as i really hate it, to mask for paint, it took me nearly 3hrs!!
here is a pic of the foam inside the sunroof

there is also plastic that comes with the tape alread attached, all you do is take enough off the roll as you need, stick it where you need it and peel the plastic down, it comes in different drops, i have 550mm and 1800mm, its so handy, and saves trying to stick tape to paper, i also have a large box with similiar plastic but it dont have tape attached, it spreads out to 4.8m and you simply pull enough to cover the whole car and cut out the bits you wanna paint then stick it down, this is wat i used to mask up for primer as i only did some patches, to mask up for primer took around 45mins
here are som epics of masking for the primer


and some of the masking for paint


here is wat happens when the surface aint prepped for paint real well, this is a pic of under the rear side window rubber, the ppl who repaired the car after i pranged it didnt do something right and when i pulled the masking off after primer, it pulleds some clear off, so if you think that its fine to miss a few bits with sanding, think again!!


getting ready for primer
2k primer will not cover sanding marks coarser that p240, well, it prob will, but you will most likely have shrink back later on, anywhere you prime and around, the surface needs to be sanded, i like to simply finish any repair with p240 and then aorund where i will feather the primer out to with p320 so it will still stick.
clean everything constantly with prepsol and clean rags,, sand around all edges with grey scotchbright or some 600 wet, mask up and clean again with prepsol (i went thru around 2lt so far) and clean rags, tack rag all the dust off and blow out the gaps and panels with the air hose while tack ragging.
mix your primer up, most 2k primers are 4:1 (4 parts primer, 1 part hardner and the reduce upto 20% to the desired consistancy, usually for high fill dont reduce, for anormal primer in average heat 10% is fine, colder days you might need 20%), just remember that the more reducer you use, the longer you have to wait between coats for the reducer to evapourate, i use a 1.8mm tip in my primer gun and usually apply 3 coats, this will give enough to block out with p240 and then your finish sand, in this case p500 dry and p600 wet where the orbie couldnt get to
always use a guide coat when sanding, it will show where you have been and if you have the panel straight and all the previous grade sanding marks out
here is the roof in dry guide caot


blocking your primer,
i like to pre block all repairs to make sure they are flat, i do this with p240 dry, and i suck up the dust with the vac instead of blowing it around,  i feather out the primer to the surrounding paint with p240 and a block, never pushing hard on the block, i then finished off with the orbie and p500 discs hooked upto the vac, remember if your dry sanding, you need to get rid of the dust, like wet sanding, the water carries away the dust, it makes your paper last longer and stops the dust scratching deeper into the paint than your sandpaper would do.

masking for paint
this took me ages, im crap at it and wont go into it much here, get on youtube and see a few clips, they will explain it and show it!!
heres my car masked for paint



final prep, prepsol it twice just to make sure, the tack rag and blow it down with air hose and then go over the car with a fine toothed comb, any bit of bare metal, filler, previous primer not from you all needs to be sealed up, i used a sikkens spot primer out of a spray can, you just spray enough on to cover wat needs to be covered and leave it a while (i got my gun setup, compressor drained and going, paint mixed up, paint suit on (it helps stop lint from your clothed falling into paint) while the spot primer dried, i then tack ragged and blew it all down again and started painting,
my paint was lesonal 2k, its 2:1 + 10%, mix it real good in the tin to make sure all the tinters are off the bottom of the tin, i like to sit the tin upside down in the sun for a while before i mix it, or a hot bucket of water does the same, makes it easier to stir up.
get some mixing cups, they come with the ratios on the side, you just fill the cup upto the mark for the paint, then the next line is how much hardner and then for the reducer, mix it reall good, to paint the body, i mixed up 1.8lt of color, then 900ml of hardner and 10% thinners
my gun is a devilbiss gti prolite, its awesome, uses very little air and you get very little over spray, it atomises the paint so nice, an idiot (like me) can get the paint to look nice straight off the gun
i did get some runs (only 2nd time using the new gun, its totally different to my old gun and im trying to get used to it) and sh*t in the paint, but thats fine, i will show how to get rid of them when i get to it

painting
my gun was setup like this, fan fully open, 1.9bar of air when trigger pulled, fliud 4 turns out, i paint around 90-100mm from the panel and overlap on solid colors by around 70%, always making sure that the gun is paralell to the panel so that the fan of paint hits evenly
the main thing is to get the whole car the same color, so i only painted the primered bits 1st, the red covered pretty well so it only took 1 coat, i let it flash off (touch some of the masking next to the painted panel and if the paint feels dry its time for another coat.
after the primered bits were red, i then gave the car 3 more coats, starting 1 sode of the roof to the other, then the bonnet, then went up the passenger side, i think out of 1 cup of paint i got the roof, bonnet, pass front guard and door and then had to refill, i then did rear 1/4 panel, hatch and moved up the drivers side, always "flick the gun" at the end of each stroke to avoid paint build up at the end of the stroke, make sure you dont forget the wheel arch lips.
simply repeat till your done
here are some pics straight off the gun,


hey look, theres an ugly bald fella holding a camera ;D

   
next will be the bumpers and mirrors, and then shw how to rub out runs and dust and biff up!!
check out youtube, i like the gunman, he has heaps of great clips
krem