Author Topic: Upgrading a C20LET turbo (fao RichieM, Tommyguards + Martin P)  (Read 23094 times)

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Offline Bad Kid

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Upgrading a C20LET turbo (fao RichieM, Tommyguards + Martin P)
« on: December 23, 2009, 00:10:34 AM »
Right for those that have asked, the basic jist of switching to a Garrett is:

Manifold
Option 1- The first option is to buy a 200sx stainless tubular manifold. There are plenty of them on eBay for under
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Offline Trigger

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Re: Upgrading a C20LET turbo (fao RichieM, Tommyguards + Martin P)
« Reply #1 on: December 23, 2009, 00:18:44 AM »
Topic moved to relevent section. Yet another top guide Ben 8)

Offline Chip

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Re: Upgrading a C20LET turbo (fao RichieM, Tommyguards + Martin P)
« Reply #2 on: December 23, 2009, 00:41:04 AM »
Ben, if you go onto VS there are some good pics of the peterg manifolds I had, and of sbd16v's garret setup on an engine stand that can be seen really clearly.

Would be worth adding in as examples
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Offline Bad Kid

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Re: Upgrading a C20LET turbo (fao RichieM, Tommyguards + Martin P)
« Reply #3 on: December 23, 2009, 00:53:10 AM »
Ben, if you go onto VS there are some good pics of the peterg manifolds I had, and of sbd16v's garret setup on an engine stand that can be seen really clearly.

Would be worth adding in as examples

I'm not registered mate, if you post the image here though that would be cool :)
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Offline Chip

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Re: Upgrading a C20LET turbo (fao RichieM, Tommyguards + Martin P)
« Reply #4 on: December 23, 2009, 11:00:46 AM »
PeterG manifolds:











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Offline Chip

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Re: Upgrading a C20LET turbo (fao RichieM, Tommyguards + Martin P)
« Reply #5 on: December 23, 2009, 11:03:47 AM »
Nortech manifold on Rob's Astra engine




build thread is here if anyone wants a read:
http://www.vauxhall-sport-forum.com/phpBB2/astra-gte-turbo-t1054,start,60.html


That setup is good enough for 170mph inside a mile, and 150mph in half a mile :D
Approx 400bhp

VERY good spread of torque though, its pulling hard from 3K-7K
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Offline Martin.

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Re: Upgrading a C20LET turbo (fao RichieM, Tommyguards + Martin P)
« Reply #6 on: December 23, 2009, 11:27:49 AM »
Thank you Black Arts Carbon & Chip, I've bookmarked page! will be somthing I'll be looking into in the new year when I have a bit more money!
So may bring up this thread again if in need of a bit of help from you guy's or anyone else!
Thanks.
Official Turbo register
http://www.clubcalibra.com/index.php?topic=34838.msg452964#msg452964


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Offline richiem

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Re: Upgrading a C20LET turbo (fao RichieM, Tommyguards + Martin P)
« Reply #7 on: December 23, 2009, 13:31:16 PM »
Nice one chaps ;)
back again with le turbo n050. Loving it!!!

Offline Chip

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Re: Upgrading a C20LET turbo (fao RichieM, Tommyguards + Martin P)
« Reply #8 on: December 23, 2009, 14:22:58 PM »
Its such a shame those peterg manifolds are no longer available, they were pieces of art rather than just amazing engineering.

Ive got the last one he ever made before his tragic death still sat in the garage at home, got no immediate use for it but dont want to let it go because I know it can never be replaced!
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Offline Bodgetastic

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Re: Upgrading a C20LET turbo (fao RichieM, Tommyguards + Martin P)
« Reply #9 on: December 24, 2009, 02:04:33 AM »
Its such a shame those peterg manifolds are no longer available, they were pieces of art rather than just amazing engineering.

Except for being a pain to fit they are gorgeous manifolds, I really didn't enjoy wrapping mine in volcanic ash  ;D.   

Might be worth highlighting the difference between external/internal wastegates which will influence turbo choice / manifold design.     

I would personally try and avoid pertek where possible, I know many people use them and they have been extremely helpful to me when desperate and are cheap but they are ultimately industrial suppliers and in my experience use bulky fittings with pain the ass threads.

Also worth adding an inline filter for the oil supply, something like this....







Offline Bad Kid

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Re: Upgrading a C20LET turbo (fao RichieM, Tommyguards + Martin P)
« Reply #10 on: December 24, 2009, 03:59:23 AM »
Pirtek can be as cheap or as expensive as you want ;) At the end of the day, as long as the oil lines don't leak, and have the right fittings on them, it doesn't really matter who makes them TBH. I went for Pirtek because I know they will be properly crimped up and have a burst pressure way beyond what the engine could produce.
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Offline Chip

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Re: Upgrading a C20LET turbo (fao RichieM, Tommyguards + Martin P)
« Reply #11 on: December 24, 2009, 11:25:11 AM »
I agree on the pirtek fittings, some of it is a bit bulky, for me thats not a problem as my engine has a lot of space around it, but for some applications its awkward, so just a case of knowing when you can or cant use them.

Earl's filter is pretty much essential for a GT turbo, but of no real value on a T series generally.

I use one as im on a GT35R
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Offline tommygards

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Re: Upgrading a C20LET turbo (fao RichieM, Tommyguards + Martin P)
« Reply #12 on: December 24, 2009, 20:25:14 PM »
thanks ever so much for the thread, its really good.  A couple of useful additions would be the difference between internal / external wastegate like Chip suggested, also what size thread / diameter hose is needed would be really useful.  Thanks again :D

Offline Ash,

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Re: Upgrading a C20LET turbo (fao RichieM, Tommyguards + Martin P)
« Reply #13 on: December 25, 2009, 03:20:14 AM »
I'm stupid,

Whats the difference between internal and external waste gates?

Offline skorps1971

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Re: Upgrading a C20LET turbo (fao RichieM, Tommyguards + Martin P)
« Reply #14 on: December 25, 2009, 05:42:55 AM »
hi this mite be totaly silly but .....  you know the air thing that makes the air twist like a wirl wind.  and you putit in the air flow to make the air movefaster. could you make something to fit in the manofold.to make the air in there move faster to go in the turbo( would it make more power or an just an idiot and  now nothing about how turbos work ....
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Offline Chip

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Re: Upgrading a C20LET turbo (fao RichieM, Tommyguards + Martin P)
« Reply #15 on: December 25, 2009, 11:43:05 AM »
hi this mite be totaly silly but .....  you know the air thing that makes the air twist like a wirl wind.  and you putit in the air flow to make the air movefaster. could you make something to fit in the manofold.to make the air in there move faster to go in the turbo( would it make more power or an just an idiot and  now nothing about how turbos work ....

You DO realise those things dont work and are a load of old bollocks dont you?
Only you sound like you really want to fit some nasty chav piece of sh*te onto a serious engine there?
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Offline Gav

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Re: Upgrading a C20LET turbo (fao RichieM, Tommyguards + Martin P)
« Reply #16 on: December 25, 2009, 12:00:06 PM »
I'm stupid,

Whats the difference between internal and external waste gates?

An internal wastegate is built in as part of the turbocharger's turbine housing. It consists of an flapper door that allows exhaust gas to bypass the the turbine blade, thus regulating the amount of boost created. An external wastegate is a separate unit from the turbocharger, located on the exhaust header/manifold between the engine and the turbo. Regulating boost is done in a similar bypassing method, but is done before the exhaust gas reaches the turbochargers turbine housing. The size of an internal wastegate is proportionate to the size of the turbo, where as an external wastegate, because it's located outside of the turbo, can be made much larger. An internal wastegate becomes too small when the volume of exhaust gasses coming from the motor exceeds the efficiency of that size wastegate. That's when an external wastegate can be utilized, to vent the extra exhaust gasses to stabilize boost pressure.

(from a tuning site, not my head lol :D)

Offline tommygards

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Re: Upgrading a C20LET turbo (fao RichieM, Tommyguards + Martin P)
« Reply #17 on: December 25, 2009, 12:18:55 PM »
thats a lot of help. is a screamer pipe the pipe that puts the extra exhaust gases to atmosphere?  i heard they arent legal and so you have to get the pipe welded back into the exhaust after the turbo? i might be completely wrong, i just dont know.

Offline skorps1971

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Re: Upgrading a C20LET turbo (fao RichieM, Tommyguards + Martin P)
« Reply #18 on: December 25, 2009, 12:30:18 PM »
You DO realise those things dont work and are a load of old bollocks dont you?
Only you sound like you really want to fit some nasty chav piece of sh*te onto a serious engine there?

lol as i said it sounds silly.. and no it only came in my head as i saw ab add for one for the air flow and i was boerd so mind wandered .. daft me .. i`ll stop thinking and go play in the sand
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Offline Bodgetastic

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Re: Upgrading a C20LET turbo (fao RichieM, Tommyguards + Martin P)
« Reply #19 on: December 25, 2009, 12:41:18 PM »
thats a lot of help. is a screamer pipe the pipe that puts the extra exhaust gases to atmosphere?  i heard they arent legal and so you have to get the pipe welded back into the exhaust after the turbo? i might be completely wrong, i just dont know.

Yea its called a screamer pipe from the noise it makes venting the exhaust gases from the external wastegate.  If its welded back into the exhaust you wouldnt hear it.  Mines gone through a couple of MOTs probably because the garage havent spotted it / dont know what it is and an mot test 'shouldnt' get the car on boost anyway so wouldnt hear it.  

Its worth noting if you are thinking of one is that you are likely to get thrown off any track due to the noise it makes so if you are thinking of building a track car always plumb it back into the exhaust.  




Offline Bad Kid

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Re: Upgrading a C20LET turbo (fao RichieM, Tommyguards + Martin P)
« Reply #20 on: December 25, 2009, 19:14:03 PM »
hi this mite be totaly silly but .....  you know the air thing that makes the air twist like a wirl wind.  and you putit in the air flow to make the air movefaster. could you make something to fit in the manofold.to make the air in there move faster to go in the turbo( would it make more power or an just an idiot and  now nothing about how turbos work ....

Think about all the twists and turns the air has to go through before reaching the combustion chamber, not least of which is a set of turbo impellers spinning at a few hundred thousand RPM! Nothing that is done to the motion of air at the filter end will have any effect whatsoever, except maybe being a restriction on the engine sucking in what it needs!
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Offline Chip

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Re: Upgrading a C20LET turbo (fao RichieM, Tommyguards + Martin P)
« Reply #21 on: December 26, 2009, 00:03:38 AM »
Screamer pipe isnt a problem on the MOT, as it wont be venting when its below the set boost level anyway.
Likewise for driving around normally on the road, and it will still pass a ministry static test as well, only thing you are at risk of really is something like a section 59 for making too much noise, but if you dont get it on boost in built up areas that shouldnt be an issue.

FORGET trackdays though, unless you can get on a (very rare) full nosie day.

My exernal gate on the nova feeds back into the exhaust further down.
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Offline skorps1971

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Re: Upgrading a C20LET turbo (fao RichieM, Tommyguards + Martin P)
« Reply #22 on: December 26, 2009, 01:02:00 AM »
so what is better external waste gate or intrenal...... i have a bailesy dump valve. but not fussed on the sound .. so dont mind getting rid if i up grade my turbo so good to know what one before i buy and do morte pipe work
skorps

Offline Bad Kid

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Re: Upgrading a C20LET turbo (fao RichieM, Tommyguards + Martin P)
« Reply #23 on: December 26, 2009, 03:04:09 AM »
so what is better external waste gate or intrenal...... i have a bailesy dump valve. but not fussed on the sound .. so dont mind getting rid if i up grade my turbo so good to know what one before i buy and do morte pipe work

External gives better boost control and effectively makes your exhaust a bigger bore at the same time (if atmospheric)
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Offline Chip

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Re: Upgrading a C20LET turbo (fao RichieM, Tommyguards + Martin P)
« Reply #24 on: December 26, 2009, 12:43:36 PM »
so what is better external waste gate or intrenal...... i have a bailesy dump valve. but not fussed on the sound .. so dont mind getting rid if i up grade my turbo so good to know what one before i buy and do morte pipe work

Wastegates have nothing to do with dump valves.

Depends on the application which is better, internal are simple, cheaper, lighter, so I try to use them where I can but for more extreme applications (400bhp+) I'll generally go to an external as it allows me to change the spring or to run dual port control on it.

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Offline skorps1971

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Re: Upgrading a C20LET turbo (fao RichieM, Tommyguards + Martin P)
« Reply #25 on: December 26, 2009, 12:57:59 PM »
Wastegates have nothing to do with dump valves.

Depends on the application which is better, internal are simple, cheaper, lighter, so I try to use them where I can but for more extreme applications (400bhp+) I'll generally go to an external as it allows me to change the spring or to run dual port control on it.


ok lost me , i thought that the waste gate wason the turbo and you closeed over with a cap thing then fitted the b dump valve ??? is this wrong
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Offline Chip

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Re: Upgrading a C20LET turbo (fao RichieM, Tommyguards + Martin P)
« Reply #26 on: December 26, 2009, 13:21:51 PM »
Not even close mate, wastegate is to allow exhaust gasses to bypass the turbine to limit boost, a dump valve releases inlet pressure to prevent turbo surge when the throttle is closed.
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Offline Martin.

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Re: Upgrading a C20LET turbo (fao RichieM, Tommyguards + Martin P)
« Reply #27 on: December 26, 2009, 13:31:31 PM »
Anyone else correct me if i'm wrong! the dump valve is there so when your turbo is spinning and pumping air in to engine through TB. you take ya foot off pedal and throttle plate shuts! now turbo is still spinning and that air being pumped  by turbo has to go somewhere!! (creating air pressure on one side of throttle plate) 
At that same point the other side of throttle plate becomes a vacuum! Because the air is still being pulled out engine down exhaust.!
The dump valve lets the air pass from the pressurised side to the vacuum side to keep a feed of air(and because it was accounted for by air flow meter when it entered the engine! It cant let it out into open air.

Every turbo has to do this!! but they do it in silence!!!
adding dump valve is just changing pluming from the silent one to a noisy one!

The wastgate is there so when your flooring it and your turbo is spinning building pressure its a safety thing so it all doesn't blow up! meaning the more air spins the ex hast side of turbo as its leaving engine, the more it pumps air into engine if you didn't have a wastgate it would just keep getting faster and faster and FASTER ...... then bang!!

The actuator is connected to amle valve via ECU and controls what psi your turbo can build pressure to! by opening and closing wastgate!
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Offline Chip

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Re: Upgrading a C20LET turbo (fao RichieM, Tommyguards + Martin P)
« Reply #28 on: December 27, 2009, 02:37:18 AM »
You are right about how a dump valve works, but not all cars have one, my cossie engine doesnt have one at all for example.
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