Author Topic: Upgrading a C20LET turbo (fao RichieM, Tommyguards + Martin P)  (Read 23488 times)

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Offline Chip

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Re: Upgrading a C20LET turbo (fao RichieM, Tommyguards + Martin P)
« Reply #15 on: December 25, 2009, 11:43:05 AM »
hi this mite be totaly silly but .....  you know the air thing that makes the air twist like a wirl wind.  and you putit in the air flow to make the air movefaster. could you make something to fit in the manofold.to make the air in there move faster to go in the turbo( would it make more power or an just an idiot and  now nothing about how turbos work ....

You DO realise those things dont work and are a load of old bollocks dont you?
Only you sound like you really want to fit some nasty chav piece of sh*te onto a serious engine there?
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Offline Gav

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Re: Upgrading a C20LET turbo (fao RichieM, Tommyguards + Martin P)
« Reply #16 on: December 25, 2009, 12:00:06 PM »
I'm stupid,

Whats the difference between internal and external waste gates?

An internal wastegate is built in as part of the turbocharger's turbine housing. It consists of an flapper door that allows exhaust gas to bypass the the turbine blade, thus regulating the amount of boost created. An external wastegate is a separate unit from the turbocharger, located on the exhaust header/manifold between the engine and the turbo. Regulating boost is done in a similar bypassing method, but is done before the exhaust gas reaches the turbochargers turbine housing. The size of an internal wastegate is proportionate to the size of the turbo, where as an external wastegate, because it's located outside of the turbo, can be made much larger. An internal wastegate becomes too small when the volume of exhaust gasses coming from the motor exceeds the efficiency of that size wastegate. That's when an external wastegate can be utilized, to vent the extra exhaust gasses to stabilize boost pressure.

(from a tuning site, not my head lol :D)

Offline tommygards

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Re: Upgrading a C20LET turbo (fao RichieM, Tommyguards + Martin P)
« Reply #17 on: December 25, 2009, 12:18:55 PM »
thats a lot of help. is a screamer pipe the pipe that puts the extra exhaust gases to atmosphere?  i heard they arent legal and so you have to get the pipe welded back into the exhaust after the turbo? i might be completely wrong, i just dont know.

Offline skorps1971

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Re: Upgrading a C20LET turbo (fao RichieM, Tommyguards + Martin P)
« Reply #18 on: December 25, 2009, 12:30:18 PM »
You DO realise those things dont work and are a load of old bollocks dont you?
Only you sound like you really want to fit some nasty chav piece of sh*te onto a serious engine there?

lol as i said it sounds silly.. and no it only came in my head as i saw ab add for one for the air flow and i was boerd so mind wandered .. daft me .. i`ll stop thinking and go play in the sand
skorps

Offline Bodgetastic

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Re: Upgrading a C20LET turbo (fao RichieM, Tommyguards + Martin P)
« Reply #19 on: December 25, 2009, 12:41:18 PM »
thats a lot of help. is a screamer pipe the pipe that puts the extra exhaust gases to atmosphere?  i heard they arent legal and so you have to get the pipe welded back into the exhaust after the turbo? i might be completely wrong, i just dont know.

Yea its called a screamer pipe from the noise it makes venting the exhaust gases from the external wastegate.  If its welded back into the exhaust you wouldnt hear it.  Mines gone through a couple of MOTs probably because the garage havent spotted it / dont know what it is and an mot test 'shouldnt' get the car on boost anyway so wouldnt hear it.  

Its worth noting if you are thinking of one is that you are likely to get thrown off any track due to the noise it makes so if you are thinking of building a track car always plumb it back into the exhaust.  




Offline Bad Kid

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Re: Upgrading a C20LET turbo (fao RichieM, Tommyguards + Martin P)
« Reply #20 on: December 25, 2009, 19:14:03 PM »
hi this mite be totaly silly but .....  you know the air thing that makes the air twist like a wirl wind.  and you putit in the air flow to make the air movefaster. could you make something to fit in the manofold.to make the air in there move faster to go in the turbo( would it make more power or an just an idiot and  now nothing about how turbos work ....

Think about all the twists and turns the air has to go through before reaching the combustion chamber, not least of which is a set of turbo impellers spinning at a few hundred thousand RPM! Nothing that is done to the motion of air at the filter end will have any effect whatsoever, except maybe being a restriction on the engine sucking in what it needs!
NURBURGRING CHALLENGE :-D

Offline Chip

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Re: Upgrading a C20LET turbo (fao RichieM, Tommyguards + Martin P)
« Reply #21 on: December 26, 2009, 00:03:38 AM »
Screamer pipe isnt a problem on the MOT, as it wont be venting when its below the set boost level anyway.
Likewise for driving around normally on the road, and it will still pass a ministry static test as well, only thing you are at risk of really is something like a section 59 for making too much noise, but if you dont get it on boost in built up areas that shouldnt be an issue.

FORGET trackdays though, unless you can get on a (very rare) full nosie day.

My exernal gate on the nova feeds back into the exhaust further down.
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Offline skorps1971

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Re: Upgrading a C20LET turbo (fao RichieM, Tommyguards + Martin P)
« Reply #22 on: December 26, 2009, 01:02:00 AM »
so what is better external waste gate or intrenal...... i have a bailesy dump valve. but not fussed on the sound .. so dont mind getting rid if i up grade my turbo so good to know what one before i buy and do morte pipe work
skorps

Offline Bad Kid

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Re: Upgrading a C20LET turbo (fao RichieM, Tommyguards + Martin P)
« Reply #23 on: December 26, 2009, 03:04:09 AM »
so what is better external waste gate or intrenal...... i have a bailesy dump valve. but not fussed on the sound .. so dont mind getting rid if i up grade my turbo so good to know what one before i buy and do morte pipe work

External gives better boost control and effectively makes your exhaust a bigger bore at the same time (if atmospheric)
NURBURGRING CHALLENGE :-D

Offline Chip

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Re: Upgrading a C20LET turbo (fao RichieM, Tommyguards + Martin P)
« Reply #24 on: December 26, 2009, 12:43:36 PM »
so what is better external waste gate or intrenal...... i have a bailesy dump valve. but not fussed on the sound .. so dont mind getting rid if i up grade my turbo so good to know what one before i buy and do morte pipe work

Wastegates have nothing to do with dump valves.

Depends on the application which is better, internal are simple, cheaper, lighter, so I try to use them where I can but for more extreme applications (400bhp+) I'll generally go to an external as it allows me to change the spring or to run dual port control on it.

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Offline skorps1971

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Re: Upgrading a C20LET turbo (fao RichieM, Tommyguards + Martin P)
« Reply #25 on: December 26, 2009, 12:57:59 PM »
Wastegates have nothing to do with dump valves.

Depends on the application which is better, internal are simple, cheaper, lighter, so I try to use them where I can but for more extreme applications (400bhp+) I'll generally go to an external as it allows me to change the spring or to run dual port control on it.


ok lost me , i thought that the waste gate wason the turbo and you closeed over with a cap thing then fitted the b dump valve ??? is this wrong
skorps

Offline Chip

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Re: Upgrading a C20LET turbo (fao RichieM, Tommyguards + Martin P)
« Reply #26 on: December 26, 2009, 13:21:51 PM »
Not even close mate, wastegate is to allow exhaust gasses to bypass the turbine to limit boost, a dump valve releases inlet pressure to prevent turbo surge when the throttle is closed.
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Offline Martin.

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Re: Upgrading a C20LET turbo (fao RichieM, Tommyguards + Martin P)
« Reply #27 on: December 26, 2009, 13:31:31 PM »
Anyone else correct me if i'm wrong! the dump valve is there so when your turbo is spinning and pumping air in to engine through TB. you take ya foot off pedal and throttle plate shuts! now turbo is still spinning and that air being pumped  by turbo has to go somewhere!! (creating air pressure on one side of throttle plate) 
At that same point the other side of throttle plate becomes a vacuum! Because the air is still being pulled out engine down exhaust.!
The dump valve lets the air pass from the pressurised side to the vacuum side to keep a feed of air(and because it was accounted for by air flow meter when it entered the engine! It cant let it out into open air.

Every turbo has to do this!! but they do it in silence!!!
adding dump valve is just changing pluming from the silent one to a noisy one!

The wastgate is there so when your flooring it and your turbo is spinning building pressure its a safety thing so it all doesn't blow up! meaning the more air spins the ex hast side of turbo as its leaving engine, the more it pumps air into engine if you didn't have a wastgate it would just keep getting faster and faster and FASTER ...... then bang!!

The actuator is connected to amle valve via ECU and controls what psi your turbo can build pressure to! by opening and closing wastgate!
Official Turbo register
http://www.clubcalibra.com/index.php?topic=34838.msg452964#msg452964


I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work.

Offline Chip

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Re: Upgrading a C20LET turbo (fao RichieM, Tommyguards + Martin P)
« Reply #28 on: December 27, 2009, 02:37:18 AM »
You are right about how a dump valve works, but not all cars have one, my cossie engine doesnt have one at all for example.
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