Topic: Guide to Reducing Understeer (Read 3574 times)

ClubCalibra · « **on:** May 09, 2006, 20:41:16 PM »

Reducing Understeer

Dramatically reduce understeer with the early turbos by increasing weight over the front axle. Simply remove the spare wheel lightening the rear of the car, and hey presto! more grip - It is a pain however should you have a puncture (!).

Manfred · « **Reply #1 on:** May 15, 2006, 18:36:13 PM »

Hi,

Caveat: there is no way to recover from oversteer on a Calibra.

If the back breaks away, that's it. All you can do is steer into the skid and hope that tree is further away that it appears.

Manfred

Kujoy · « **Reply #2 on:** May 16, 2006, 11:17:54 AM »

Is that the voice of experience talking there Manfred?

nikp · « **Reply #3 on:** May 16, 2006, 15:05:42 PM »

Actually, also, removing the spare tyre will not increase grip at the front, but will reduce grip at the rear, moving the balance toward a more neutral handling car.

dj_smurph · « **Reply #4 on:** May 16, 2006, 17:14:52 PM »

also adjusting the damping rate of the shocks and softer/harder anti roll bars will allow you to tune the car, i have had the back end out on the car but on a koni kit not great but it meant that the achilles heel of vx was taken care of.

thats why the vx220 was left to lotus

Manfred · « **Reply #5 on:** May 16, 2006, 18:17:24 PM »

Hi,

> Is that the voice of experience talking there Manfred?

It most certainly is.

I have passed many motorcycles on the outside bend with screaming tyres driving my V6 (used to be my party piece), but that would be lethal without the extra weight in the trunk because without that extra weight, as soon as you lift the throttle to keep the front in check the rear would break away and you'd be in real trouble.

I would not hurl a calibra in corners kamikaze style, trying to pass bikers hanging off their 600cc supersports without at least 60Kg worth of ICE in the trunk. Preferably more.

I would *never* do it with anything other than the stock suspention. I've seen to many 'tuned' lowered cars skid and spin out trying to keep up with me (and on two occasions hit the guardrail tail-first) to know that it's a bad idea to tinker with the suspension if you don't have the equipment to measure what you're doing.

Manfred

Kujoy · « **Reply #6 on:** June 05, 2006, 23:26:41 PM »

Yeah i have to say the stock suspension is pretty good. I've had a few "incidents" with sharp corners and been surprised the car managed to hold onto the road as well as it did.

I must stop racing Golf GTi's

T.F.S. · « **Reply #7 on:** June 06, 2006, 12:01:14 PM »

Quote from: Manfred on May 15, 2006, 18:36:13 PM

Hi,

Caveat: there is no way to recover from oversteer on a Calibra.

If the back breaks away, that's it. All you can do is steer into the skid and hope that tree is further away that it appears.

Manfred

not strictly true....

you apply throttle and the car will pull itself straight

Add_Gee · « **Reply #8 on:** June 06, 2006, 12:09:37 PM »

you can recover from liftoff oversteer in a calibra, theres a nice big island by me which is fun in the wet

(in 2wd by the way)

T.F.S. · « **Reply #9 on:** June 06, 2006, 12:12:27 PM »

Quote from: Add_Gee on June 06, 2006, 12:09:37 PM

you can recover from liftoff oversteer in a calibra, theres a nice big island by me which is fun in the wet (in 2wd by the way)

exactly!!

the only time you ever get oversteer in a calibra is due to diesel spills or a bad driver who does not know where to apply power on corners (or when to release power)

hitting WOT on FWD oversteer is a age old technique to recover from lift off oversteer

if you kbnow what you are doing you would never loose the back end of the cally......you would just understeer into a kerb if you was just over the limit

Add_Gee · « **Reply #10 on:** June 06, 2006, 12:30:33 PM »

you really have to prevoke it to get the backend out too, like really chucking it in way over the top style, normal fast driving you only get understeer.

sallows · « **Reply #11 on:** June 09, 2006, 22:26:00 PM »

I took my V6 to a track day once, our friend has a kit car and I often go along as we used to race against eachother in karts. I couldn't resist, chucked my helmet on and lit up the front tyres, half way round the second or third lap a sapphire cosworth come past me, so I nailed it and round the corners he couldn't get away, the straights were adifferent matter but then I was back on his exhaust into the next corner. this has been the same case with many different cars on roads and country lanes.

I've driven many cars fast and slow on race tracks and roads!!! This car is still the one that shocks me the most on standard suspension. Pottering about it leans alot, going round a corner fast it understeers, push it in a bit harsher and it gives you very controlable oversteer, when you feel the back go and mess your pants!!!....some how...it still stays under control!!!!!! Stunning car

dragon25 · « **Reply #12 on:** June 30, 2006, 19:49:47 PM »

i totally agree with brain here, hell i drive fast all the time even in our peugot 405 diesel and the one thing fast drivers know is that to stop losing control at any point whilst going around a carner, short or short is whilst aceelerating towards the corner, you took the foot off the pedal then when your about 1/2 way into the corner you apply the power again this allows the car to push itself around the corner and accelerate out of the corner thus maintaining the fast speed you wish to keep and mainitn the control.

but what i need to know is that since i will be heaviy modifiying my future 4x4 turbo, is , is it better to leave the suspenion alone since im always doing the above, or is there a certain limit i can go to without destroying the reliabliity of the control.

gaffertetley · « **Reply #13 on:** October 13, 2006, 22:34:00 PM »

Hi ALL

have to agree with the comments on the V6, bizarrely, I can push mine fairly hard in the dry, but the body roll compared to my 8v is proper scary, it is so vague in feedback, I think someone somewhere got the calculations wrong badly!!
How can 2 cars, so similar, perform so differently, my 8v performs just like my bro's on the road, I've replaced nearly all the suspension parts, convinced something was wankered somewhere, but i just can't improve the way it handles, dispite having the car tracked, and checked on a jig, it still want's to break away more readily in left handers than rights.......

Very Wierd

Gaffer

madb1981 · « **Reply #14 on:** December 26, 2006, 14:00:38 PM »

koni adjustables all the way! the stance is a little odd(ie a*** up). poly bushes everywhere, they aren't as harsh as people make out.
never managed to get the back to step out, unless it was on purpose.....

complete contrast to my old koni equiped redtop cav(not independant rear suspension), that was scary for oversteer! the calibra out corners my friends DC5 integra without breaking a sweat, ok so i get left standing like a st bernard with a slight limp when the straight bits of road appear but hey!

MrCrusher · « **Reply #15 on:** May 25, 2008, 23:49:27 PM »

Hi all.

I know this is an old topic yet it will probably be still relevant to most Vx owners today.

When I had a Pug 405 MI16-(160bhp, XU9J4 engine running at 183bhp- no mods or TC), I used to run wider tyres on the front than what I had on the back. If I remember right, it had 195,50,15's on as standard.

I know the MI16 was known for its cornering prowess and grip, it was very difficult to get the car to understeer and almost impossible to get it to oversteer. If it went though, you knew you'd really overcooked it. Either that, or it was some s**te on the road- usually diesel.

Torque steer was the main problem- if you give it the beans, it would whip the steering wheel out of your hands if you weren't ready for it.

Anyway, on standard wheels, I used 205 or sometime 215,50,15's on the front just for the added grip. Did the wider tyre thing years before on my old Cavvy SRI although with the Cavvy, it didn't handle all that well until I dropped it 40mm at the front and 30mm at the back.

Seemed to help me. Less torque steer and you could cane it through the corners, gripped like a Pit Bull.

Just had to look out for increased tyre shoulder wear.

MrCrusher · « **Reply #16 on:** May 26, 2008, 00:02:15 AM »

Hi all again. It would not let me edit my last post so this is in addition too.

I've not had to do the wider front than back tyre thing with my CRX Del Sol SiR. Although I run it on 215,40,17's, it cornered like a Go-Kart on standards anyway. Didn't even have to fit a camber kit to stop shoulder wear.

Honda can "do" proper suspension.

Turning circle now 3 miles though.

Kyleport · « **Reply #17 on:** September 18, 2008, 18:37:21 PM »

I used to run my Calibra on 225/40/17s and it handled brilliantly on the corners. The problem I had was tramlining in a straight line.

My car was lowered 60mm aswell so I used to experience finacial problems buying tyres every 2 months as the inside of tyre used to wear at a fast rate due to me not bothering to install a camber kit !!

Manfred · « **Reply #18 on:** September 22, 2008, 15:10:49 PM »

> you apply throttle and the car will pull itself straight

Yes, but you don't ever lift off the throttle in a bend unless there's a damn good reason.

When you're at the limit and the rear breaks away, you can steer into the skid and floor it to catch it... but you're still going in the general direction of the tree and not losing enough speed.

For the V6 at least, 60kg in the trunk did wonders.

Manfred

J@zV6 · « **Reply #19 on:** September 22, 2008, 15:56:15 PM »

Quote from: MrCrusher on May 25, 2008, 23:49:27 PM

When I had a Pug 405 MI16-(160bhp, XU9J4 engine running at 183bhp- no mods or TC), I used to run wider tyres on the front than what I had on the back. If I remember right, it had 195,50,15's on as standard.

Anyway, on standard wheels, I used 205 or sometime 215,50,15's on the front just for the added grip. Did the wider tyre thing years before on my old Cavvy SRI although with the Cavvy, it didn't handle all that well until I dropped it 40mm at the front and 30mm at the back.

Seemed to help me. Less torque steer and you could cane it through the corners, gripped like a Pit Bull.

The tendency of fwd cars to understeer is obviously caused by the front wheels being asked to provide grip for steering and traction for drive, especially if you accelerate round a corner. The result is less grip for cornering, so the front drifts wide. Obviously by using wider tyres (and lower profile tyres) you increase the grip (at least in the dry), so you reduce the tendency to drift, at the expense of heavier steering and higher tyre wear.

I suppose that by using a narrower tyre on the rear, at the limit, the rear wheel has less grip than the front, so it tends to drift (oversteer), which might help to compensate slightly for understeer at the front. In practice it is quite difficult to get the back end to let go before the front in a fwd car - unless you are braking, or lifting off the throttle and transferring weight forward (which you shouldn't be doing in a bend anyway).

Author Topic: Guide to Reducing Understeer (Read 3574 times)

Manfred

dj_smurph

Manfred

T.F.S.

T.F.S.

sallows

dragon25

gaffertetley

madb1981

Kyleport

Manfred